Patrice Badami 0:02 

Hi, this is Patrice Badami, with Acorn to tree family podcast today I have Amanda hunt. She’s a middle school librarian, and she’s been doing that for eight years. Her morning, how are you today?

Amanda Hunt

I’m great. How are you? I’m just really good. 

Patrice Badami

I love books. And I love your library that you have there, we’re able to see we’re having a zoom as well. And I just want to say that my library downstairs is crazy. Because I’ve always been at better books. Having said that, what are some books that you’ve read recently that you would recommend to us?

Amanda Hunt

When there is a big month that is happening in our world or our culture, and May is Asian American Pacific Islander month. And so I create like a TBR of books that I haven’t read that I want to read, featuring those authors and those characters. And so recently, I read Yellow Face by David Henry Hwang. And it was revolutionary because I felt like it really hit the nail on the head with a lot of things that are happening in the publishing industry right now, in regards to own voices, and making sure that we’re having the right representation telling the right stories. And so I really, I really loved that book. And I felt like it was something that would be great for a book club. It is like an adult read. But I could see a lot of it sparking a lot of conversation. I also just finished Yolk by Mary Choi. She is a Texas author. It is more under the new adult category. But it’s about two sisters and dealing with cancer and finding their way back to each other. And so it was just really an impactful read lots of heavy topics, but really important for readers. 

Patrice Badami

Right. And I’ve read some books recently also in the elementary space, one of which was called Eyes, that kiss in the Corners by Joanna Ho and Dung Ho. It’s a beautiful book, and I’m gonna have all those books on my I have a section on the website where I review children’s books, but I also want to have young adult books. So I will use your references because it’s very important. I also have parenting books, but that’s why I had you on because I want you to tell us where we can find things. What’s your favorite book of all time? 

Amanda Hunt

Oh, this is like asking your favorite child. So think about it. And I’m going to have to go with the The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue  by V.E. Schwab and Julia Whelan I actually have a tattoo from her book on my arm. And I love that that book kind of crosses genres, right? So it’s it’s fantasy, it’s historical fiction, it’s romance. It’s realistic fiction; it just kind of defies the genre as a whole. And it’s just one of those that really stayed with me long after I had read it. And I heard they are possibly doing a movie adaptation, which makes me nervous because you never know how.

 Amanda Hunt

 But I just love that one. And I recommend it to so many people all the time. 

Patrice Badami

Right. Another thing I was going to mention is that just because it happens to be on I saw it the other day. So there’s a whole Netflix special about  Judy Blume and everything she was, you know, groundbreaking for the time; her books stayed with me my whole life. And that it’s an excellent thing to just take a look at just for you since you’re a librarian. So what is information literacy? And why is it so critical? And how do you teach them?

Amanda Hunt

 So information literacy is when you take like research skills, critical thinking skills, technology, and communication. And you kind of you know, put it all together under that umbrella of information literacy. And it’s so important because our kids are growing up under a different in a different world than you grew up in. And we’re all kind of learning as we go with that. And what does that mean for social media? And what does it mean for like, a lot of the big topics right now is AI (artificial intelligence) and what that means for our future and for our students. And so we must teach how to use these tools the right way. 

Amanda Hunt 

 I feel like I use Common Sense Media, I use lots of different resources to teach how to be using social media correctly. I model it by using social media myself, and I try to show the students like this is how the right way to use it and this is the right way to get your message across, and they need to learn about their digital footprint. They need to learn that nothing ever really goes away, and for middle schoolers and up a lot of times they don’t get it.

 Amanda Hunt 

 Maybe they apply for a job and they don’t get it because the employer looked at their social media and saw there you go. Right. So I tried to make it as real-world as possible for them. That’s incredibly important and helpful. 

Patrice Badami

 I’m glad you said all of that because I have, another person, I had a podcast with Lisa Luciano, and she does online safety. And she discusses everything you just said, from a safety perspective. So this is why I have a podcast to bring this kind of information to parents so that they’re aware of AI, the implications of it, how some schools are banning it, and how to use it appropriately. So that’s, that’s very, very helpful to hear. How do you handle a parent who challenges a book? Have you ever had that experience?

Amanda Hunt

Yes, I have. I actually, um, my district is somewhat of a conservative stronghold along the I 35 corridor in Texas. And we have had potential challenges, but we are very lucky in my district, I am the secondary lead librarian, and I work closely with our elementary lead librarian to create a very strong board policy to make sure that it’s not just one per person that’s going to just ban whatever they want to ban. There is a protocol in place for that. But I feel like a lot of times, what can happen in a conversation can change a parent’s mind, they come in very upset, or they took something out of context without reading it as a whole. And so having a conversation with a parent about a book can answer a lot of questions and kind of calm a lot of their concerns. But if that’s still, you and our district, we do have a board policy where the parent has to fill out a challenge forum, and they have to read the book, the board has to read the book, and they have to take it as a whole rather than, than one sentence or one part of the book. agree with. 

Patrice Badami

I think that’s great. And that’s a very, that’s a new way of processing this type of, you know, dealing with books, banned books from when I was a child, many, of course, I read.

Amanda Hunt

Every one that I’ve seen, and I look at it, and I say, Okay, we need to really open our world a little bit more and open our insight and really take a look at what the messages of these books to be able to before you make a quick snap judgment on.

Patrice Badami

What so what is your philosophy on web 2.0 And its presence in the school library?

Amanda Hunt

Web 2.0 kind of focuses on where we’re going as a society with the Internet. And I am very much of the mindset of not being afraid of all the things that are happening. I feel like a lot of times, school districts, as you said are quick to ban things and quick to stop things; that’s not going to take it out of the student’s hand; if they have a cell phone, it’s not going to take it out of their home when they take a school issue device home. So I don’t know that banning is going to be the first thing I ever do with any type of technology that we’re learning about. But I do understand that some things need to be banned at school social media is blocked on our on our campus, and YouTube is blocked. Because a lot of times it’s a time waster for kids, they get on it and not do their schoolwork. 

Amanda Hunt

So whenever I’m using social media, to highlight the library, or to highlight a book, I’m trying to show them, you know, the right way to use it the right way to post it, where to post it. The information that you’re sharing is never going away. And I do that they know that anything they’ve put out in the world is there forever, regardless of if you take it down. And you know, a lot of that falls under like the social media such as Snapchat, a lot of them think that when the video disappears, you know, 24 hours later that it’s not that it’s gone forever. And I’m like, well, they’re screenshots. And a lot of times they don’t, yeah, right, that that step is saved. And a lot of them, unfortunately, don’t get it until something happens to them, right? Someone that they know. And so I try to reach out or try to get to them before that point. And just kind of let them know that our future with the web is ever-changing. And it’s ever-growing like none of us heard of chat GPT in September, and now it’s all everyone is talking about in the education community and I’m teaching a session on it at our district Academy because they hear about it like this without ever doing a lot of research and seeing how what is the best way we can use this tool in the classroom. And I’m going to tell you right now it is going to change the way teachers teach. It’s going to change the way that we kids write research papers, it’s going to change so much of our future and this is just the first step we are going to look back on chat GPT and laugh at how basic it was. 

Amanda Hunt 

Exactly like I agree with you stuff is growing, and it’s so fast, and it’s coming out, rolling out so fast. And these kids are getting it bombarded with them every day when they’re on their devices. And so I feel like as a librarian, part of my job is to make sure that at one that I know what these, you know, tools are, that I know how to use them in the right way. And three, that I teach it to kids so that they know how to best use it in their own personal life and in their school life. Yeah, I was just gonna say the bottom line is, and again, that’s why I have this website, we have to understand what these children are exposed to, how to navigate it, and how to facilitate them using it in a productive way to learn and to, to do their schoolwork, rather than, you know, have a global shutdown. Because children, that’s not how they’re wired. As soon as you say you can’t use it, what do you think they’re gonna do? Exactly, to know how to use it properly? And if they’re looking at you as guidance, and saying, Yes, this is here. And you know, when you do that, and you present something to a child and say, I know what’s here, let’s do it properly. Right? And that’s a better way of handling it. So do you believe? What do you believe you just mentioned what your role is to guide them to teach them at all the new technology, to select books and to discuss them and see what the point of them to present voices, diverse topics, diverse, you know, society? That’s what you’re trying to do? But what else would you say? How else would you further explain what your role is and how it’s impacted what you feel your purposes as a librarian? So yeah, I think a lot of times the stereotypical view of a librarian is someone that sits behind a desk and shushes everyone and reads all the time. And that could not be further from the truth, no matter how much I wish I could be reading all the time. Um, I feel like my job is to go beyond the four walls of the library and out into the world and what they are seeing and what they are doing, and, and relate to them as best I can. And anytime I can insert myself into the conversation, when it comes to books, when it comes to the library, that’s what I want to do. During the pandemic, tic tock really blew up and I had already been kind of putting myself on tick tock through the our library, before it happened. But when it happened, we were all at home. And this was the app that the kids were on the most. And so I was like, well, if they’re on there, I want them to see me, I want them to see this book, I want them to see the ways that they can read on their iPad at home, I want them to know that we have audiobooks, and that they can look up things on Newsela and all these other sites, rather than going straight to just Google and reading the first thing that pops up. So it was how can I insert myself and teach ad on a platform that they’re using without them knowing that I’m teaching them? So like, it was like, Oh, they saw me on there for your page. And like, Oh, I saw that you recommended all these books for June for Pride Month. And I’m like, Yeah, that was a mini-lesson that I just did for you that you didn’t even realize that I did, because they’re looking at it like, Oh, I know, that’s my library. And so like, for me, it was a way that I could reach the kids. Because they weren’t checking their email. They weren’t reaching out through Canvas and our LMS platforms, they were on social media, tick-tok in particular. And so for me to insert myself in the conversation that way, I learned more about what they’re watching, I learned more about how I can share my love of books and reading and information literacy and research with them. Without them really knowing that I was doing it.  

Patrice Badami

I think that’s terrific. I think that’s amazing, because you made it fun, but your passion comes through. And when your passion comes through, it’s very, it’s showing a more sincere, genuine, you know, interest in the kids. So you’re showing them several things, you’re showing your interest, and you’re relating to them, and they probably related to you all of your tik-toks and they came back to you I’m sure you got a lot of responses on that. So that’s a great idea. I like that. Um, so tell us about the type of collection development necessary in school libraries. 

Amanda Hunt

 I am very passionate about collection development. It’s something I spend a lot of time on. You know, we can’t read every book in the library, but boy do I try. And so I spend a lot of time just reading myself. I spend a lot of time researching as far as like trends, what books are popular, or what books are about to come out that have diverse characters that are written by diverse authors from multiple perspectives. And then I also completed a diversity audit of my entire collection. It’s something I did when we got back from the pandemic because the numbers like when Amanda Hunt 15:00 I ran a diversity audit on my collection, it was staggering how many white voices were represented as opposed to Latin x, which is the other half of my campus like our entire district is actually 51%, Latin X. And that was not represented in my collection. And a lot of factors fall into that, right? We have titles that are very old Leno from like, patch it, and all of those things from back in the day, when we didn’t have a lot of diversity in publishing. It also is that the publishers, it’s on them to also be publishing multiple voices. And as of like, right now, our nation is 59%. White. But what’s happening, though, it’s being pushed out in the publishing world is about 71 to 73%, white authors, and white characters, so those don’t match up. And so for me, I wanted to make sure that I was being very intentional with the books that I was selecting that represented the kids on my campus. Not only that, but I want them to know that there are other voices out there in the world, other perspectives than their own. You know, we always talk about windows, mirrors, and doorways, and wanting to make sure that our kids see themselves in a book, but also can see other perspectives because that’s where I feel like the big push has been the last several years. And thus, we’re seeing the backlash with the book banning. Because not everyone wants us to read about other perspectives and things like that. But I do feel like it’s so so important. And so my library is genre fide. And what I did is I went through each of the genres and did a diversity audit to see where my gaps were. And now that that’s done, I’m able to when I purchase books, be very intentional about which voices I’m still wanting to get for my library for my students to read. 

Patrice Badami

That’s exactly what I agree with 100%, I’m noticing it when I go to the local libraries because when I review books, it’s not just books that have their books that I want to look at. So even downstairs, most of the books I have, that I’m gonna be putting on the website are diverse books, from different perspectives. And it’s so important, and that’s what drew me to your Instagram and then made me reach out to you, I saw the books that you have listed. And I said, I have to talk to this woman to say, you know, um, so What’s another thing I wanted to ask is what reference materials are most needed in school libraries.

Amanda Hunt

 I feel like with reference materials like we’re used to growing up with the Encyclopedia Britannica sitting on top of the shelves, and that’s not really anything our students can, can relate to. Most of them don’t even know what encyclopedias were when I talked to them about it. And so for them, when I’m talking about reference materials, or I’m talking about research, I always point to our text quest in Texas, we have like a whole you know, like Britannica, we have a whole database collection that comes with purchase of like for in all of school districts. And it comes with biographies and World Geography and all different kinds of subsets like Britannica, and Gale. And so I always tried to teach them about using those first, Google is always going to be Google and Wikipedia is always going to be what they want to go to first because that’s what they know. And when it comes to me wanting to know what movie, Tom Hanks was in in 1991, then yeah, sure, let’s go to Google. And that’s going to be appropriate for that. However, when you’re doing research on the Holocaust, or you’re doing research on any number of topics that they have to do in middle school, and you’re wanting credible sources, that’s something that I always have to talk to them about. And I stopped calling them databases because that’s not what doesn’t compute with them. And so I call them searchers search apps. And so when I say search app, then they know that we’re gonna go to this particular place, and I have a website that I’ve created for my students to access and they have choices. And it’s and it’s divided by subject. So if they want to do something for social studies here that here is the search. Oh, that’s great. I also have it divided by type. So if their teacher says I need one periodical, I need one video, I need one article, then they’re separated by that too. So whatever type of material they’re looking for, or whatever genre, whatever subject they’re looking for, I haven’t divided lots of different ways. So that way, they can easily find it. It’s easy as if they went to Google, but like I always show them. When you go to Google, you get like a million hits on the first you know, few pages and you don’t know what’s good and what’s not. These are specifically designed for student research. And I also show them Google Scholar, because there’s going to be some that are dead set on using Google and I’m like, Okay, if you’re gonna use Google, then let’s use Google Scholar and that way it shows them how to cite it shows them, it gives them the PDF of the top of the content that they’re looking at. It’s very many students. 

Patrice Badami 

Standard rather than the whole world, just putting anything they want outright, which is really important. Which brings me to my next question, which is search engines as far as what which ones are safe? Which ones? are, you know, the best that you guys recommend? What are you using in your school? What do you recommend?

Amanda Hunt

With Google, like, you know, they are all familiar with that I don’t need to teach them that I don’t, you know, the only thing I need to teach them is how to filter through all of this stuff to the needle in the haystack that you’re looking for. And a lot of times, that’s when I switch to Google Scholar and show them that you can filter by year, by topic, by type, and then it has a cite button.

Amanda Hunt

 I wish I’d had it when I was in school because I had we had to learn how to cite with MLA in the stupid book. And so they remember that Tim Yes, yeah, it sounds like y’all don’t know how lucky you are. There’s the Cite button, and you just click it and copy and paste it into your work cited page. So, um, I do try to have them go those routes. And I always talk about, you know, how Wikipedia is trying to get better, you know, as far as listing all of their resources at the bottom, but they’re still not what we need to be using when we’re doing searching and things like that. Our district does have a lot of blockers in place for kids when they’re searching for certain things. But like, it doesn’t catch it, like a lot of times, it catches it the wrong way. So like I remember one time, I was an elementary librarian for five years, and my kids were researching butterflies. But when they type in butterfly, the “butt” part was getting caught. Sure. And so then they searched for anything. So it’s interesting how like, we’re trying to, you know, shut it down. But sometimes it’s too much. And this is the mark a little bit. 

Patrice Badami

So I feel like we’re all still learning when it comes to the best places to go the best way to research but it’s always going to be better for them to use these search apps, these databases rather than just opening it up to the whole world, you know, right? And what is your plan? As far as where do you see school librarians in five years? What is something they’re gonna have to tackle? And if these are, these are librarians who’ve had their positions for the past, let’s say 15 years or so, what’s where are they going to need to evolve? What are your tips for incoming librarians and librarians who aren’t familiar with some of the things you’ve mentioned? What do you suggest?   

Amanda Hunt

 First of all, your professional learning network, it’s so important, like, it’s how I learned about so many things is from my peers, and from the librarians that are out there, like me doing the work, and, and sharing what they’re learning. And so whether you’re on Twitter or on Instagram, you know, tick tock, wherever, find your people that are in the same profession that are dealing with the issues that you may not have hit you yet, but it’s possible it’s coming. There are a lot of librarians that work in more rural rural spaces that haven’t had chat. GPT be an issue yet, but they’re going to you know, it’s not going away. And so for me, it’s about diving in headfirst, like, yes, learning new things is hard. Learning new things can be scary, it can show, you know, I don’t know everything. And sometimes librarians feel like they want to feel like they know everything. And and, and it’s not that we necessarily know everything, it’s that we know where to go to find what you need to know. And so I feel like not being afraid of trying new things, because we’re not going to be able to rest on our laurels. Like, I mean, we got to get out there and we got to fight we got to read the books that people are banding we got to go and download the apps that the kids are using that we can learn about, we need to get out there and and learn the AI stuff so that we can better teach it not just for me teach my students but teaching my teachers like they look to me a lot in my campus in my district to know what’s what’s on the horizon, what’s coming out, what’s what the newest thing is. And so that’s a big responsibility that I feel like I have that I feel like we all should be feeling because the library is the center of the school. Yes, the place where learning happens. And if you go up to your librarian, and they don’t know about a lot of these things that are out there like then I feel like I’m not doing my due diligence and my job in the best way possible. And so I’m not saying I have to know everything on every topic, but I do need to you know, research it and see how is this going to impact my school? How is this going to impact my students and my teachers because like with the me about to teach about AI, I’m not a classroom teacher, I don’t I don’t do the things that they do. But I can help best them make them the better classroom teacher using this particular resource. And I have to put myself in that mind frame a lot. Like when I was in the classroom, what would I have wanted? What would I have needed? And so a lot of times I felt like the librarians you know, we we have a lot of responsibility 

Amanda Hunt

 But I think that it’s so important for us never to forget what it was like to be in the classroom. And that’s why in Texas, you have to have at least two years of classroom experience before you can be a librarian. And I feel like that’s so important because again, multiple perspectives, right? Learning, you know, coming at it from that teacher, that classroom vibe, they don’t want to know necessarily how it’s gonna affect me as a librarian, they want to know how it’s going to affect them in the classroom and what they’re doing with the students. So keeping all of that in mind of the responsibilities that we have, I feel like it’s so important for librarians to stay on, you know, the, what’s what’s coming out, to stay on top of things and to really, really, you know, zero in on on the things that are happening with our students, especially at the secondary level, because our kids, man, I was talking to some of my juniors and seniors that came back to visit me at the end of the year, and they’re like, Chat GPT wrote all my papers this year, and I was like, oh, okay, so that’s great. So when I go when I teach the teachers, and in June, at our academy, it’s not gonna fly next year, and they’re like, oh, man, I’m like, yeah, so it’s like, they are learning this ahead of us. And so we need to stay on top of that, and make sure that we’re also you know, responding to it and showing them the right way to use it. Because there are sites out there that can catch AI written research papers. 

Patrice Badami 

 Yes, okay. See, that’s very interesting what you just said, I’m listening to everything you’re saying, because I have a child that I like to when I’m having guests. I’m taking notes, like, over here, because I want to know what to watch. And I have no idea that you just taught me something today, I didn’t know there were special. There’s websites and apps that are able to detect, yes. Okay. Yeah. So a lot of times one thing I’ve noticed about the chat, the chat GBT.

Patrice Badami 

First of all, grammatically, forget it. You need to Grammarly with it anyway. Right. But beyond that, it’s, it’s this is going to sound so archaic. It’s robotic, the way it’s, it’s not human. It’s not feeling like a human who had written. It’s a very unreal clinical, if you will, and  I can detect it. I was a teacher. But you know, that’s very interesting that you said that, it that makes sense that there would be just, you know, a point/counterpoint to using chat GPT. So there’s the chat GPT. And there’s something that’s going to squash it. 

Patrice Badami 

Here in New York, it’s already banned in some of the New York City schools.  I thought was really helpful when you said the information you gave for up and coming and current librarians was very helpful concerning being abreast of everything coming out technology wise. Another thing is creating a website yourself, whether it’s district wide, or your specific school is amazing. That’s a terrific way, because kids will, let’s face it, if it’s easier for them, they will go to your website and say, you know, everything’s right here, right. If you have things that have already been filtered through, and helpful for them, helps them in especially kids with special needs that I work with. It’ll make it more approachable and less daunting. But it’ll also help to remove all of the extraneous data that they’ll be sifting through. So that’s another idea for librarians, school districts, that they shouldn’t perhaps set up. Plan ahead, set up a website that has the portals that will be helpful for your students. 

Patrice Badami

Absolutely.  So your thoughts about the direction young adult adult books are taking what strides are young adults making young adult books making, um, I have loved the direction that Young Adult books have taken in the last like 10 years or so. And moving up to from elementary to middle. It was I was already reading a lot of those books, like, you know, I had read Hunger Games and Divergent and Twilight and all of that stuff. 

Amanda Hunt

Young Adults books have done a 180 which I’ve been very excited about to see how diverse and how inclusive we have been in publishing. It makes me sad, though, that so many people are trying to ban these these voices that people have been fighting for so so so long to get on the shelves. Because a lot of times I feel like the parents that are coming from the book painting background, they don’t work with kids, because they don’t know that a lot of things that they’re concerned with in these books are happening in our schools. And a lot of times now, the publishing industry books are having to compete with social media and social media going every single time and so if we’re gonna have that competition like for our kids attention, we need to make books more relatable.  If I gave a student, um, you know, Are You There God, it’s me, Margaret. Um, you know, now, it wouldn’t be it would be very nostalgic like, oh, that’s what it was like, then you know, but a lot of times kids don’t want to read Little House on the Prairie they don’t want to read all of these books from our like childhood or childhood before us. Because they can’t relate to it. And there’s not kids in their on their cell phones, there’s not kids in there using possible language that I hear in the hallways every second and so it’s like, that’s how they relate to each other. That’s how they act. And yes, it you know, the topics that are in there might be you know, depending on the household that you’re in racy to you, but at the same time, it might be a love language for a different family of how they converse with one another. And so to say that this whole section of books or this type of book are all of these books should be banned is be like well, it can for your child like your child absolutely does not need to be reading X y&z But not all children. And I’m gonna tell you right now, I don’t know how many times I’ve had kids come up and say this book like that, it saved me or helped me, I was just gonna say that, I was just gonna say it’s important for them to see their faces in these books, to be able to validate what they’re thinking about, by giving them that those tools and saying here, these are some great books, right you’re doing as you’re allowing them to relate to these books. And maybe instead of going on social media, they’re diving into this book, they’re reading it, while they’re eating, they’re not letting this book go until they finish it. It’s not only good literacy wise, it’s not only good, intellectually wise that they’re exposed to reading, but it also provides them to have that jumping off board, if you will, into developing their self esteem. Giving them that is so more important than anything. 

Patrice Badami

I love that philosophy. I think that’s great. Now is we’re gonna have you discuss about some of the things that are up and coming for you. Your Instagram is amazing. Tell us more.

Amanda Hunt

Yeah, so I am very involved in the Texas Library Association. I am the Texas school librarian counselor. And so I’ll be going to the American Library Association conference in Chicago this summer, and then I’ll be going to a SL the school librarian conference in Tampa Bay in October. And I’m just so excited to continue this work as far as making sure that everyone knows about new books that are coming out that are diverse, that are inclusive, that promote empathy and that represent our student population. And so that these kids can really find something that can help them with their social emotional learning that can help them connect to a book and see themselves reflected in it. That is always going to be my my biggest goal in my in my life and in my career as a librarian, so I can’t wait to continue it. I’m always doing book recommendations on Instagram, on Snapchat on Twitter on tick tock on hive all the places. 

Patrice Badami

So Amanda hunt, once again, she’s a middle school librarian. She’s done it for eight years. She’s very passionate. And on the at the end of the podcast, you’ll have the notes, she’ll have links to everything so that you can review what she’s done and see where she’s going. So everyone listen, Thanks for Thanks for listening to Acorn to Tree Family Podcast. Amanda, thank you so much for being a guest. And so we’ll we’ll have this on the website. You’ll be able to find this plus other resources that are helpful for you and your family. And have an excellent day everybody. Thanks for listening again.