Patrice Badami  0:02  

Hi, this is Patrice Badami, with Acorn Tree Family podcast. And today we have Caitlin McDermott. She’s a nutritional coach, a fitness instructor. She’s certified by the National Academy of Sports Medicine. And she’s an elementary teacher of eight years, she’s going to be discussing teachers and how they need to have self care, including, you know, meal prep meal plans, workouts, and how to help them re energize and feel confident through fitness and nutrition. How are you today? Kaitlyn?

Caitlin McDermott  0:33  

I am great. Patrice, thank you so much for having me. And I’m so excited to be a part of your podcast. And so I’ll just go ahead and start off about you know, how I got into all of this. And why did I decide to become a teacher myself, you know, a lot of times, we get stuck in the teacher grind of the emails, less than planning, grading the all the things that we do outside of the school hours, that it becomes very difficult to make time for ourselves. And so, yes, that becomes, you know, when we don’t put ourselves first, then we become very drained. And then we also can’t be our best in the classroom. And I think one of the most important resources in the classroom is the teacher. So we have to take care of ourselves, teachers, so that we can be the best for our students. And how do you do that, when you have, you know, so little time, and, you know, when you have, you know, decision fatigue all day long, like, you look at statistics for how many decisions teachers are making every day. And it’s exhausting. So when it’s time to, you know, come home and, you know, throw on my gym clothes and go to the gym, we’re too tired to do it, because we’re so like, teacher tired. And so that’s where I wanted to come in and help teachers, because a lot of the things that we see, you know, on online magazines, it’s like, oh, yeah, go for a walk on your lunch break. And like, really, because they can have that luxury, or, you know, get up and get your workout done. First thing in the morning, it’s like, well, I’m already waking up at 5am to get to school. So how can I do any earlier? Like, I really can’t? I think there’s a lot of things like, there’s really great advice out there. It’s just really difficult to apply.

Patrice Badami  2:24  

For. Yeah. Yeah. And like, for example, even if you’re just to get yourself to school to be ready, it’s even more difficult if you’re a mom, who’s a teacher, oh, my God. So I get it. And I think what’s really important to keep in mind is with all the media out there, you start feeling bad, that you’re not working out, you’re not making the effort, but we need to direct towards  the real person, not so much the person in the media, you know, we need to really focus on the actual people who need a little extra help, maybe a little extra encouragement, that they should really think of it this way that they’re without self care, they’re not going to be able to help others. Like, for example, if you’re on an airplane, and you don’t put your mask on, you’re not gonna be able to help anyone else, because you’re gonna pass out. So I think it’s so important. That’s why I wanted you on the podcast, because, you know, we really need to, to, like, teachers have gone through a lot through COVID. And well, yes, I think what it is, is sometimes you grab an extra coffee, you grab a cookie, and it ends up getting you later on where you’re at the sugar high, and then you crash. And then it’s a bad cycle. And before you realize you gain 20 pounds.

Caitlin McDermott  3:39  

Yep. And all the goodies now I’m in the teachers lounge to like donuts.

Patrice Badami  3:46  

Exactly, that it looks so good. So hard. Yeah. So tell us about meal prep, I really want to get it. I’m gonna actually write notes too, because I want to know a little on some things that aren’t high protein. Not necessarily low carb, but get the protein in there, you know, some ideas for meal prep.

Caitlin McDermott  4:05  

Absolutely. And I think one of the best things that you can do for meal prep, a lot of times people think like, oh, it’s gonna take so much time, but as teachers, we have to pack our lunch every day, we don’t get the luxury of going out to lunch very often. And so really, what I advise, you know, other teachers that I’ve worked with to do is start with the vegetables that you want to eat that day, or sorry that week. And it’s really easy to just start with that, chop them up, throw them in the oven and roast them at like 400 degrees. And so while that is doing that whole thing, then you can start prepping the protein but we’re really starting with the vegetables first. And another thing I say focus on vegetables is because it’s really hard to over eat vegetables. So right when you are even if you’re not meal prepping and you’re just you know you have a plate and you’re serving yourself dinner, lunch, whatever. If you fill half of your plate with vegetables, it’s gonna fill up your stomach. And then you can’t really like, go wrong with some of the other portions because half of your plate is vegetables. So it makes sense. Yeah, you’ll start with vegetables first. Because a lot of the time people do want to start with the proteins, but it’s like veggies first. And then we’ll work on protein and try and make sense for sure. And so like your meat for the week, so chickens are always the easiest and cleanest and easiest to find. And then they have so many now with our world of being like on the go all the time. I know, there’s brands out there that already have it like fully cooked, you just have to reheat it. So that makes it really nice. And so you can just prep all the chicken that you’re going to need for the week and provide, you know, different variations of that. So maybe you’ll take chicken one day and throw it in a salad, chicken another day with those veggies, you’re roasting chicken another day and put it in a wrap loosely so that way you don’t get sick of the same things. And so then, while your protein is cooking, then I say pick a grain for the week, whether that’s going to be rice, or you’re keen Wah, or you know, barley, you know what oats, people have different preferences and of course, depends on, you know what veggies that you’ve selected. But if you’re sticking with those three things, your vegetables, your protein and your grain, and you can kind of vary it up for the week, and then for the following week, you could always kind of go the same kind of way. But maybe you’ll switch out your vegetables, you’ll switch out the protein to something different. And you’ll switch out the grain, something else unless you just love it so much and you want.

Patrice Badami  6:32  

I’ll tell you something that I found out from my son. So I have a son who’s wonderful. He’s 23. He does this thing with chicken. Let me tell you something, okay. He gets a grill that he has this thing called nature’s seasonings. He’s very particular with the spices but let me tell you what he does. He grills it on the grill. But he uses that grilled chicken and soup fajitas and everything but he uses that nature’s because when you have it in the soup, let me tell you, it tastes like a restaurant soup. So that’s how you can add the flavor. Put this stuff on, it’s not adding salt. It’s adding flavor. And I don’t know what magic is. I don’t know what he does with it. Like I don’t watch him but he does a really good job and he’s careful with not overcooking it. So it’s very flavorful. So that’s something people can really, you know, consider. Also, you know what I do? I’m gonna tell you this, I make hard boiled eggs. Okay, so I make them for the week. I put like two handfuls of spinach. This is gonna sound weird. I grill up the sweet potato, throw it on the plate. Put a little tiny bit of butter. Take one egg white and then take a full egg and then three egg whites. Chop it up. Microwave it. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it’s actually good. It actually goes together nicely. You know, spinach can be mixed with a sweet potato. I don’t know what it does, but it tastes good. That’s another option. Just gonna watch your eggs. Yeah,

Caitlin McDermott  6:58  

When you say microwave. I’m like, yes, we want that fast and quick. Yeah, it saves a lot of time

Patrice Badami  8:06  

So listen, talk to us about grains. Tell me a little bit more about what grains or what you know about grains. I’m interested.

Caitlin McDermott  8:12  

Yeah, sure. So I think the biggest thing now when you weave through news and media, the first thing everyone says you have to do is cut carbs and go keto. And I’m always like, there’s, I guess there’s times when you would do that if you’re like a bodybuilder or like a model about to go off the runway. Because, like, yes, it works. But technically what’s happening is you’re losing water weight when you cut carbs. And so it’s so I mean, it can’t do it necessarily long term. But that’s where I say like, if there are occasions when you do it, but the reason I don’t want to cut carbs is because it’s that’s your, like main source of energy, that’s your fuel. And so a lot of times when people do go keto, or they try to cut carbs, they find themselves being very tired and low energy and that’s usually because they don’t have their carbohydrates. And so all right, yeah, what’s happening to when you’re working out, especially when it comes down to strength training as your muscles are using the carbohydrates as energy and so then at the end of your workout, you’re tired you should be because that was your workout but then you need carbohydrates to refuel the muscles so that they can recover properly. And then that you have energy back in your body for you know the next day’s workout or you know, another workout or just activities of cleaning house and going so carbohydrates are very important, but usually, you know, the first thing people cut and it’s like, you don’t have to

Patrice Badami  9:46  

you just have like a smaller portion. But here’s a question because a lot of people you don’t have mentioned to me when you start burning muscle, like fasting so if you fast the wrong way. Now I’m not criticizing people who are fasting, but you have to have all the Information. Yes. And tell me what happened. Like what causes it? What behaviors could cause muscle wasting in this whole diet? You know, everyone’s very interested in diets. How does that happen? Exactly?

Caitlin McDermott  10:14  

Yeah, that’s a really good question. So a lot of times people will like fast before working out, especially like a very early morning workout. But what happens is because you’ve fasted you haven’t filled your body with anything, you’re when you go to work out, your body is looking for anything, it can burn for energy. And so a lot of times, when you fasted, you’re, you’re burning your muscle, because that’s, like, if you don’t have carbohydrates, the next thing that’s going to go are fats and protein. So there goes your muscle. So that’s why even if you have like, they are working out super early in the morning, you know, the best thing you can do is have you know, something, even something small like 1/2 a banana maybe.

Caitlin McDermott  10:57  

is great. It doesn’t even have to be like a huge meal, and no one really wants to totally have a full stomach. But for the people that always say, oh, but I’m not hungry in the mornings, I would say it sounds silly, but like a chocolate milk, plain chocolate milk, and yes, that has sugar in it, but it’s the simple sugars. And so what that means is those carbohydrates are going to be very fast acting. So you drink that chocolate milk and oh, it’s so yummy. When you go to work out, you have that energy quickly, whereas a complex carbohydrate is going to take longer for the body to break down. Right, right. It’s like toast. Awesome, but if you have whole grain toast, yes, that’s good for you but if you’re trying to use it as food for a pre workout it wont burn quick enough.  

Patrice Badami  11:38  

So yeah, simple sugars, so would that would include the milk, but would that include fruit a piece of fruit?

Caitlin McDermott  11:50  

So you’re Yeah, and even like rice cakes too. Okay. Or the peanut butter on them for protein? I will say that some people are very light peanut butter people and some people slather it on. Yeah, if you’re a slathered on person, this kind of watch it before you go to the workout just because that fat is not going to break down to energy quick enough for you either. So

Patrice Badami  12:16  

sure, there’s also a thing I started using, which is like dehydrated peanut butter, right. So if they take the fat out, it’s actually not bad. If you put a little bit of water in it it’s not bad to have that peanut flavor. However, if you put it in a protein shake, it’s even better. But I don’t know if I could handle a protein shake and then running. It’s too heavy. I mean, so like if you use the defatted dehydrated peanut butter and a little water. So it’s just it’s a little something. But it’s not this big heavy thing in your stomach. You know what I mean? So that’s an option too.

Caitlin McDermott  12:16  

The powdered peanut butter has a very good flavor. And it’s not high calorie either, because that’s a lot of times where people tend to overeat because it’s so delicious. The dehydrated way absolutely is a good compromise to trade out.

Patrice Badami  13:10  

Just as a side note, I was certified by Idea. I don’t even know if they’re around anymore as a step aerobics instructor. Yeah, I did that sound funny. And I used to lift weights when I was pregnant with my six year old. I was, you know, lifting. I was benching. I was squatting. And I was doing all that. And I remember my trainer said, yeah, have a little bit of peanut butter. He says, not a sandwich just to touch a little cracker or something before you come in, because I used to get a little dizzy when I was pregnant. Um, so yes, great. So, we talked about meal prep, we talked about some different things. And we talked about the different types of grains briefly. So there’s quinoa, which I like that’s a kind of nutty taste, you know, and then there’s brown rice. There’s barley. There’s some other ones too, that I don’t even eat, though I don’t really know a lot. And what are some other ideas you have that are really nutritious?

Caitlin McDermott  14:06  

Um, so like, I think millet is another grain to which oats are great. So I’m more of a rice person. But quinoa is like something to know about it is. It is a complex carb, but it has a lot of protein in it. You’re trying to balance out all the macronutrients and get them in. Quinoa was the way to go. I know that I can easily over eat it so I’m more, because it tastes so good. Yeah, I gotta watch it there. But like brown rice I tend to find it the easiest because that comes in the pouches. So you can do 90 seconds in the microwave.

Caitlin McDermott  14:43  

There’s some mixes too with brown rice, red rice, and quinoa. Like I got it I got some of those prepackaged. It’s not bad. It’s pretty good. I can get my daughter to eat it.anything that’s fast. So that’s where I’m like any of the already cooked chicken in the warm up in the microwave rice especially for busy days when you have conferences or meetings after school just want to come home and eat because you’re starving. But then there’s like, because I find that like, you know, the easiest things to pull are like the cookies and the things that I know. And so how can we create, you know, healthier things available where you’re not sitting there having to pull out the mixer and pull out everything? And just go quickly, but yeah, I’m more of a brown rice person, but I am a sucker for the white sticky rice. So that is simple.

Patrice Badami  15:39  

You know what else I was gonna say is, uh, for people who are vegetarian. I, there’s a terrific recipe I found for curry lentils. And then you can put that with. If you want to be more neutral, you have that and then you can put that with I do it with the quinoa. And I throw a little spinach in there. So that’s a good lentils guys bring back the lentils from when we were kids. They’re not even black beans, you can put the rice in, you can substitute the quinoa, right? And so that’s another idea for the people who are vegetarian or even I’ve had curried tofu, not that roasted, roasted, that’s another thing because it gets that crispy and this around the edges delicious. Um, or what about cheese and nuts, I wanted to see what you thought about that.

Caitlin McDermott  16:30  

These are a few of my favorite things. But again, one of those things that are, like you know, very high in fat, which in turn means it’s very high in calories. So it does come down to just watching kind of how much of it that you’re eating. And so that’s where with like, cheese we there’s always the prepackaged like cheese sticks, or the little round things, the right ones wrapped in wax. So those are always great to watch. And then same for like, anything with sandwiches, you know, if you get to portion out a slice versus cut an E cut. Those are dangerous. I know. That’s what I always say, like the prepackaged nuts because I’m one of those people like I love peanut butter. I love peanuts, almonds and walnuts and all the things. But again, having the entire I know, I tend to go back for more. So like one bag, one little snack bag. That’s it for today.

Patrice Badami  17:32  

I actually have a nutritionist. It’s to her once in a while and she said to me, Listen, you can have eight almonds. I said eight and she said yeah, she said put a couple of cranberries in the dry cranberries. And she goes put an apple or something she goes. You can have more than eight. So people who are hitting Yeah, the degree of them is a handful. No, it’s not, you can’t do this. That would be like eight or nine, maybe 10 or something. But like I’ve used for cheeses I’ve used feta and goat cheese a little bit right? With the strawberries, a little chicken? Yeah. We’re not, maybe not all the vegetables are a little bit of bosonic. You can throw a couple of roasted almonds on that. So it’s like a gourmet meal. Um, yeah, so like you just if you have the cheese, check with guidelines like a slice a chunk, and then move away, move away from it. And try to avoid crackers and things too, right? Yeah.

Caitlin McDermott  18:32  

It’s like, a lot of people are going into meal plans and dieting. And they’re thinking, Oh, I have to restrict this and restrict that. Whereas, you know, my mentality when I’m coaching is always like, you know, nothing is off limits, you just have to monitor. So like, maybe if someone brings in doughnuts to the teachers lounge, and like you want one, then I said cut it in half, because there’s always a knife there. And someone’s always willing to have the other half. And then just like and just treat it like this is my treat for today. And so I just know that like, this is my special treat, I’m going to enjoy it and then I’m going to get back on track for lunch and dinner. There’s so many things because then you’re not likely to go into a binge later. So it’s like you have to have willpower.

Patrice Badami  19:18  

I get that. I think if you nourish yourself regularly throughout the day, you’re not gonna get crazy hungry. It’s when you have the mentality as a teacher. Let me just do two more emails. And then you’re like, well, we organized like this. Wait, let’s do this. And then before you know it, so that’s why it’s good to pack your lunch, but pack a couple of quick, nutritious things that maybe don’t need refrigeration or if you have a little I don’t know, a portable fridge, or if you have a lunchbox with the ice packs, you should pack if you don’t finish it, that’s fine, but you want you don’t ever want to let yourself get so hungry by skipping your lunch right?

Caitlin McDermott  19:57  

Absolutely!  

Patrice Badami  20:00  

Because my nutritionist, she said this, she said, that’s like the sumo wrestler diet. If you skip a meal, you’re going to be eating and picking because your body’s like, wait a minute, I have to make up for that lunch I missed. So you’ll be eating way too much at night. That’s how you gain weight. And you don’t want to do that. Nothing against sumo wrestlers, I try to be wise, I’m just saying she said that a lot of times to put the weight on the food later in the day. That’s not what we want to do, we want to be great. And also, here’s the thing I wanted to throw in and get your take on reflux, reflux. Now, notice, it’s not just something for little babies. And it’s not just something for older people, a lot of women in their 20s and 30s. Coming off the stress of COVID A lot of my friends are developing reflux. What does that mean? That means you have to stop eating, not necessarily just to not to gain weight. by a certain time at night, you have to be careful that you don’t get terrible heartburn. Heartburn at night can lead to esophageal issues, like Barrett’s disease, and that could lead to something scary, we don’t want to get go down that path, but you don’t want to eat late at night, two hours before you go to bed is the least you really should be three hours, you should stop and just have water for that reason. Right?

Caitlin McDermott  21:15  

And that’ll talk about some of the late night snacking habits that some of us, you know, because that’s real life, and you know, and then, you know, having to watch what we eat and when we’re eating. So there’s a whole thing, no timing, but if you have a meal too late at night, too, it’s also going to keep you awake, and then prevent you from sleeping, and then cycling it. So

Patrice Badami  21:41  

Yeah, so and the other the last thing that was concerning nutrition is coffee. So a lot of people are having a lot of it. And when I was speaking to, you know, I was speaking to Argavan Nilforoush from Baby Steps Nutrition, she said, listen, you’ve  got to stop by 11 in the morning, or else that caffeine, it’s hanging out in your system. And then late at night, if you get up for whatever reason, if that’s what’s gonna keep you up. I said, are you kidding?  She said, No, I’m telling you. You can’t have it after 11. That’s like, okay, but that’s something people have to keep in mind. If you’re having it late in the day, also, hydrating. When you’re dehydrated, you’re going to eat more, you should find this good thing. You’re hungry. Right?

Caitlin McDermott  22:26  

Exactly. There’s so many times when you know, our first thoughts like, Oh, I’m hungry, but in reality, we’re actually just thirsty. So it’s always like, a big drink of water and then then decide in a couple of minutes if you’re actually yeah. But no, no, I’m definitely a person that needs my coffee. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, there, but there’s so many mixed things on and I think everybody’s body is different. Different. So I react differently. And I know that I have teacher friends that do not drink coffee. And I’m like, How are you awake? Yeah. There’s other people who I know like, you know, they have medications that may cause drowsiness and alertness and everything they need to have it. But that’s where, like when people say, is it good? Is it that and that’s why I say it’s, there’s mixed views on it.

Patrice Badami  23:19  

You have to see how it feels with your body. Exactly. In general, have a lot of water just just have a lot of water. I understand that for every cup of coffee you have you need to drink two glasses of water to replenish the fluids. That’s what I was reading recently. No, but tell us about ideas for how to incorporate exercise into your daily routine.

Caitlin McDermott  23:42  

Ooh, so I mean, in terms of running around with kids and everything, you know, I teach seven and eight year olds, so they don’t sit still very long. And so, you know, I try to keep my mini lessons to a maximum of 10 minutes. And then I give them some sort of like, you know, if it’s an activity where they’re going to stand up and turn and talk or we do like mix and mingle activities, I’m walking around with the students or we might do like the Go Noodle videos like a brain break.

Patrice Badami  24:13  

I do that with my daughter to this

Caitlin McDermott  24:15  

They are awesome, up and moving in. Like sometimes yes, I need to prepare for the next activity when they’re doing that. But other times if I’m good to go, I’ll jump in.

Patrice Badami  24:27  

So you should check with your students that you should try to take part when they are doing some type of movement, brain break activity. And then you know, when you’re outside maybe even during recess rather than talking you can maybe make a couple circles and then talk to the kids and you know, that’s great. That’s a good idea for the teachers. And yeah,

Caitlin McDermott  24:47  

We are lucky we have a track but even if you don’t have a track there’s basketball courts that most Sure. And just kind of walking around will actually will help you supervise at all distances

Patrice Badami  24:57  

You will also get you a couple of steps and right. Hi, I’m so and when you have your lunch, even if you say you’re a person who finishes in like 15 minutes, even on your own,  there’s certain stretches right in your chair, something like that, that you could do.

Caitlin McDermott  25:11  

Absolutely. And then I’m also like a person speaking of chairs, I have a yoga ball chair.

Patrice Badami  25:17  

That’s awesome.

Caitlin McDermott  25:18  

Yeah. So as I’m like doing my reading groups, or my math groups, I’m, you know, having to sit up and balance. And so it’s not like, I think it’s comfortable, but you can’t like sitting back in it, because it’s exactly. So just making the most like little tweaks to things here. And there sure, doesn’t have to be anything crazy. But in terms of, you know, working out, and like what to do after school, and a lot of people think that they need to like to drive to the gym, workout for an hour, and then come home and then shower. And then that sounds like such a long, exhausting process. But in reality, like, if someone can commit to like three days a week, to about 20 to 30 minutes, yeah, that will build so many habits. And a lot of times, if you’re like, Okay, I can do 20 minutes, usually, when you hit that 20 minute mark, you’re like, you’re like I can go a little more. Yeah, I

Patrice Badami  26:09  

I was just gonna say. And for the people who literally have not exercised in like a couple of years, really, there’s the teachers who are really just, they’re just pushing through with their families and whatnot, have a some breaking into pieces, five minutes, one day, 10 minutes, the next day, you really got to start low, because like, you get very tired, if you have not worked out and tell us about a strength, you know, strength is strengthening your muscles and muscle building activities for the for the people to help them.

Caitlin McDermott  26:40  

So there’s hope I could go on forever on this one. But usually, like just starting, like very much from scratch, like never having worked out before, I really want to start with walking. And then once you’re hitting about, you know, 10,000 steps a day, even seven to 10,000, I should say, then you’re good to start some strength training. And there’s a lot of different viewpoints on where to start. So a lot of times, if you’re trying to do, you know, dumbbell work, or you know, barbell work, that’s awesome, because you’re working a lot of your muscles and your cores. But then, you know, the machines, they’re going to isolate your muscles more, but you’re not going to have to, like focus so much on four, because it’s kind of hard to mess it up on a machine. But you’re not getting the core work there. So there’s, I guess, if you’re hoping to increase weight, and then go up from there, the best thing to do would be to work with a trainer, or at least get to know the equipment. And that way you feel good and dependant on being able to move up. But yeah, I think you know, machines after like, you’ve kind of built up a cardio base. And you start with some of the machines, it’s really hard to mess up the machines and just kind of look at they all have like the little labels and look at everything and and I think that there’s this thing in gym world where people think like, oh, you know, everyone’s gonna be mean to me, and I’m intimidated. If you like to walk up to anyone, and you’re saying like, how do I do this?

Patrice Badami  28:09  

Yeah, it will usually show you very nicely. They really are. And I tried all different gyms. there’s a lot of different ones I’ve tried. You know, another thing I wanted to mention was, if you haven’t worked out in quite a while, you gotta be very careful jumping right in. And I’ll tell you why. You got to stretch out. I hurt my knee trying to get up on the step aerobics then I just did. Let me just jump on, you must warm up. And my feelings from my experiences. I start with resistance bands, and Pilates, which is using your own body before you even pick up a dumbbell and watch it with the kettlebells. Two kettlebells are a little scary. You’re gonna wait, he’s up a little bit. Go slow. Because you really don’t want to hurt us. I mean, I hurt my knee. I got scared. I couldn’t even get into the beds like, oh, I injured myself. So you gotta go slow work and make sure you stretch. And then resistance Gentle, gentle. And then do the Pilates too. That’s also another idea.

Caitlin McDermott  29:06  

And it’s full body.

Patrice Badami  29:07  

Yeah. All right. So listen, thank you so much, Caitlin, for joining us today. I’m really happy that we had you today. And I think what we could do is have everyone tell us a little bit about your website and where people can find you.

Caitlin McDermott  29:21  

Sure. So I am on Instagram as the teacher fitness coach. And then I also have a website it’s Kate couch so CA It CLU ch.passion.io And that’s where you can find no free nutrition guides. There’s a couple of free workouts and of course with the subscription, you get more bonus features. But there’s like a lot of free things on there. And then within there they have my monthly newsletters which give a lot of nutrition tips and workout tips and things like that. But that’s where I am in the internet world.

Patrice Badami  29:55  

Of course you can find her on the acorn to tree family pod So we’re gonna have this podcast on the next few days, probably next few days actually. And so that definitely check out the podcast, check out Caitlin’s different information, check out her sites, and we’re gonna have everything posted. I’ll have a link to her website at the bottom of the acorn to tree podcast. And I also have her logo there so you can know what to look up. Okay, so listen, Caitlin, have a great evening. I’m so glad that we had you on today.

Caitlin McDermott  30:26  

Oh, me too. Thank you so much for having me. You have a great evening as well. Okay.