Patrice Badami  0:04

Hi, this is Patrice Badami. With acorns a tree at family podcast today I have Nicole black. She’s a recovering elementary school teacher, a mom to three super busy kids who enjoys strong coffee at coffee and carpool raising kinds of kids. The call shares the best parenting resources and strategies for intentionally raising kinds of kids creating a stronger family connection and bullying prevention. And since this parenting gig isn’t for the faint of heart, we need everything we can to make parenting these little people a little bit easier and a whole lot more enjoyable, Nicole overs ideas for making the holidays more meaningful back to school tips, gift guide ideas and ways to help reluctant learners. Hi, Nicole, how are you?

Nicole Black 0:50

I’m great. How are you?

Patrice Badami  0:51

Very good. So happy to have you on the show today. Okay, so we’re gonna dive right into our topic for today, which is a topic everyone needs to deal with. And it’s bullying. Now, one of the wonderful resources among many on the Nicole’s Teachers Pay Teachers and her website is a book that she wrote that I actually just purchased, I’m very intuitive. It’s called Introduction, what is bullying? It breaks down everything from what is bullying, the different types of bullying, how children, the different responses from children and some suggestions on possible other other ways of responding to have outcomes that are more productive, helpful and reinforce your child’s self esteem, so they can prevent bullying in their own lives. So, yeah, I want you to talk about that a little bit, that book that you wrote.

Nicole Black 1:44

So I started my whole journey of creating this online business because I wrote an article my daughter was being bullied at school and I wrote an article about the one thing I think parents can really do to help prevent bullying in general, I think one, I think this is to six right now. One in five kids will be bullied. But most every child and adult has been affected by bullying. They’re either been bullied, they were the bully, or they’ve witnessed it, they’ve been a bystander, or hopefully an upstander, where they’ve stood up for somebody that needed a voice needed somebody to just stand by them and say, I see this it’s not okay, I’m I’m here for you. So one of the things is just that parents can really do and this article, this was my very first article was how to not allow just by standing. So you can see bullying, you’re like, oh, that’s wrong. But then if you leave it at that nothing really comes from it. So it’s standing up and saying this is not right, stop it. No. And the statistics are outstanding of one child were to say stop, no, don’t say that. You can’t talk to her that way. You can’t do that to him. It shuts down a massive percentage of bullying instantaneously. It’s actually really quite staggering. And so we can just teach our kids to, and this is a learned behavior, we have to teach them how to do this, we can practice intentionally practice, you can say stop, you can say no, you can say knock it off, you can yell and scream. So we teach a lot about kindness here. And I get confused sometimes with politeness and niceness. And so we don’t teach nice, we don’t teach. I don’t spend a whole ton of time teaching about manners being quiet, and it’s all part of it. But that’s not the focus. So you can be kind and be loud. Sometimes kind of has to be loud when you’re standing up for somebody who needs the voice or for yourself when you need a voice. So you can yell, stop and know and still be kind because you’re being kind to yourself or being kind to the person who needs your support. So teaching kids that they can stand up and should stand up and how to stand up for themselves or for somebody else can stop so much bullying in its tracks. And I basically wrote this article and handed it to my girlfriend who has an incredible online business and established blog for parenting. And she handed it back to me. She said, Nope, I’m sorry. You have to start your own. I’ll help you. And so that’s how it started. And I wrote for all different kinds of things to make parenting easy in general. And over the last, I think, three years, I’ve really been intentionally focusing on kindness and bullying prevention.

Patrice Badami 4:11

Yeah, I think it’s really needed. When I came across it, I said, this is exactly what I want. actually did. You’re the ornament. We’re the one that kind unkind tree. We did it with the Girl Scouts. They reacted very well, in the sense that they were really engaged. They were interested, they offered their opinions. It’s open to dialogue. It was perfect. Politics. Exactly. Um, okay, so let’s dive right in. How can you stop bullying by teaching your kids one thing?

Nicole Black 4:45

Well, that’s what we were just talking about. So it’s teaching your kids to stand up when they see something so so when you see something you say something, knowing how to say stop knowing how to say no, and if our kids are introverted, or shy or quiet or don’t have that ability, which is true What do we find? It depends on personalities, it depends on the situation. A lot of kids are worried that the tension that could come to them right, standing with the other person who is being bullied, so they don’t feel quite so alone just for them and saying, by just your physical presence, I stand with you. This is not okay. And so as adults, we can do this to perfect strangers on the street when we see injustice is when we see people being racist or homophobic, or rude to other people. But we have to intentionally teach our kids this, it takes an incredible amount of bravery. And so we have to give them practice, we have to teach them,

Patrice Badami  5:36

we have to model we have to model we are

Nicole Black 5:40

100% Yes, but we can also practice a what if you see this, what could you say you, you could do this. So there’s lots of different they don’t have to yell, stop and know that that’s not in their personality or in their Roadhouse or that’s not what they’re feeling, they can grab that a kid’s hand and walk away, they can learn best telling, there’s lots of different strategies, and we can teach our kids the strategies. But really standing up for somebody else is one of the number one things that we can teach our kids so that it can stop bullying because the the the posters, the no bullying zone, my kid was bullied underneath the bullying post.

Patrice Badami  6:14

That’s all I’m gonna say,

Nicole Black 6:17

we need I have them. I have all the posters. They’re so cute, and they’re fun, but stand alone. They’re not effective. We need to intentionally teach kids how to recognize bullying and stand up for it.

Patrice Badami  6:29

Right? So yeah, I was gonna say, the idea of standing with your friend, I taught my daughter, I said to her, if you’re uncomfortable, or you’re frightened, and you don’t want to say something, just look at the person in the eye. And just give them just a look where you let them know in your heart think this doesn’t matter. And then walk away, you don’t have to say that. Just look, give them a little because it’ll come through your eyes. If you’re thinking this doesn’t matter. And then you walk away. You know, if you don’t want to say anything do that, you know? Um, so that’s really that’s very important. And it’s very, it takes a very strong child could do that. And I hear you on that. What are some things every parent should know to stop the bullying? Well, I

Nicole Black 7:14

think it’s a it’s become a buzzword in the sense that we’re using it incorrectly many, many times. So he’s a bully. She’s a bully, he was bullying me. So we have to know as parents, what is an educators true? Um, we have to know what is bullying and what is not bullying, we have to be super clear. And so we have to ask kids questions then. So we don’t just come like, you know, mama bear comes in, oh, my gosh, this kid’s a bully I’m going to take Okay, so no, that’s not the real life. So many kids are not bullies, they’re just mean or they’re thoughtless, or usually it’s thoughtless, they’re not thinking about what they’re saying or doing. So bullying has a very clear definition. It is intentional, it is deliberate. Okay, it is repetitive. So if you’ve asked them to stop, they’re still doing it. They’re being sneaky about how they’re doing it. But it’s us, and almost always involves a real or perceived imbalance of power. So an older kid versus a younger kid, or a group of boys and one girl or a group of girls, and one boy, or a group of able bodied kids and the kid whose body is different, or all the brown kids and then a white kid or all the white kids and a darker skinned, like, it’s the imbalance of power or popularity, imbalance of power, that perceived power. It’s a group of people or I am older than you or I’m bigger than you or I’m faster than you so I can do this to you. And then there’s lots of different types of bullying. So, you know, we usually think because we watch these, you know, the 80s and 90s movies that we kind of grew up on, and we always assume physical bullying, the pushing the shoving, the hitting under the table pinching siblings often happens, you can’t see it. But there’s also now verbal abuse, verbal bullying, name calling, teasing, relentless, consistent, intentional, causing harm, or humiliation. There’s also now cyber bullying because everything is online, Zoom meetings and zoom classroom, Google Classroom and gaming online. Kids don’t need to have phones to decipher. Because our life is digital, and it’s part of it. And so we have to monitor that as parents. And then the last one is social and emotional bullying, and I think this one is the most dangerous, because it is it’s often invisible. There’s no proof, there’s no proof, and like a physical push or shove will be the mark. But this is the most emotional and long term damage to our kids mental health. And this is don’t talk to them, like getting groups of people to not interact with a certain child or don’t let her touch you or don’t you’re not allowed to be her friend anymore. And everybody just doesn’t call or doesn’t invite or outing somebody for anything. sharing secrets intentionally. So doing this and then spreading rumors all over them. is extremely damaging way more damaging than being punched, I think long term. And then then there’s the next level, which is harassment. And that is when you do any of those types of bullying because of somebody’s race, nationality, sex, sexual orientation, disability, religion, medical needs food allergies. All of that then becomes its Bortel. It can become hate crimes, but it’s harassment and it’s illegal. Yes. So we have to know like a kid calling you a name, or saying Your shoes are ugly. That’s kids being mean and thoughtless. And if you ask them to stop, then and they stop, that’s not bullying. So when parents know the difference, you can say, hey, don’t say that to me. And they stop. It’s over. It’s done. Right? It’s, we’re good. But if it’s continual, if it’s now your ugly shoes, I’m telling everybody else to say your shoes are ugly. And I’m calling you a new shoe girl, and everybody else is calling you ugly shoe girl. Now we’re in the bullying land. So do you see the difference? Yes, absolutely. Know that when we know how to deal with it. We know how to help our kids deal with it, how to if we escalate it? Do we get help all of that good stuff.

Patrice Badami  11:10

All right, I hear that. And I appreciate everything you said because there are different categories, different severity, ease and different lengths of time that these people put the effort in to it once they did it. If they do it for months and weeks. Yeah, I get it. And I understand how it’s emotionally damaging and hurts their self esteem, which sets them up to be further bullied. Or, here’s the thing I’ve noticed just being a teacher being around that if you have a child who has been bullied, or who has has different types of issues coming perhaps from their home, perhaps from something outside of school could be a sporting thing, maybe they’re having issues with different extracurriculars, they if they’re feeling powerless, oh, often times they turn around and start bullying because they’re in pain.

Nicole Black 11:58

100% It’s a bullying is a learned behavior. So all bullies have been bullied, they’re young, and they feel out of control. They feel powerless. And so they turn to the next person. Not all people who are bullied will become bullies. As parents, we have to break that cycle. And so that’s when it comes to checking in on their mental health, pouring into them, connecting with them, and giving them an outlet for their big emotions, allowing them those big emotions. So yes, we can prevent them from becoming bullies. But all bullies have been bullied.

Patrice Badami  12:27

Yes. Okay. So like, people don’t realize that. And I just want to validate that because I’ve seen it firsthand.

Nicole Black 12:33

Ya know, there’s always an explanation. There’s not an excuse for it. But there is

Patrice Badami  12:37

explanation. Oh, yes, yes. And you know, it’s interesting, one of her teachers, this, my daughter, one of our teachers said something when she was bullied when he went to the teacher, the teacher said, and then this is very interesting, because my daughter said, Oh, I was bullied. I don’t want to get that person in trouble. Or I don’t want to say something to make that person feel bad. So I thought that was interesting. And her teacher really gave a great answer. She said, Okay. She said, number one, when someone bullies you, they’re hurting inside. And it’s not your job. And it’s not, it’s not your job to fix that. It’s your job to just take care of yourself. Yeah, and step out, step out of it. But just remember when they’re bullying you there, and she actually used the word broken. I just wanted to throw that out there. She said, they’re broken inside somewhere. And it’s not your place to fix it. Yeah, you’re a child, that someone an adult needs to help that child.

Nicole Black 13:34

That’s amazing. It was so many teachers that don’t know how to deal with this, because we were never taught as teachers are never taught how to deal with us. So that’s amazing with that response. And yes, a lot of times we accidentally victim shame when it comes to bullying. Because we don’t know what to do as educators, administrators definitely don’t know how to handle this effectively or with emotional sensitivity to be fair. So that’s a great response I love

Patrice Badami 14:02

and it’s in the thing is another thing is that so I have two generations of children 23 And I have 24 and I have an I have a six. So the thing about it is it’s different nowadays, back then you could contact the parents say, Well, this is what happened. Not now. Not it’s very different environment. Now, it’s not my child. So I’m like that. It also would cause further problems because now the parent has an issue with you. So the best way of curtailing all of this is strengthen your child from inside out, strengthen them with these tools that you have in your resources. Make them know that there’s an open communication, they should tell you everything at all times not to be worried about that. And if they feel like a big emotion like they’re crying, let them cry. So you know what, that’s okay because I know it hurts. Don’t say you don’t need to cry. It’s not important. You don’t want to shut them down. You don’t Don’t want to invalidate, and tell them to keep it to themselves because they’ll keep other stuff to themselves. And you don’t want that. You want to keep that open. So yeah, so once we move on to another topic here, or rather within this, so you protect your child, if you’re being bullied at school, when you when you when they meet opposition by discussing the issue, and, and is it make sense, though, to talk to the parent, we just discussed why it might not work, it might cause more more problems. So

Nicole Black 15:29

I’ve never had it successfully work talking to a parent. It’s been my child’s close friends. It was a toxic friends. And I lost the friendship over it because it was not my child, I’ve had other people who are in my social circle. And I went through the school because it was it needed to be through the school. And she came through, she’s like, I can’t believe you didn’t say anything. It’s like, well, this is a big thing. And there are years of repercussions from it. So my son is still dealing with the junk that her son did to my kid. And so we just I cut ties socially, I pull away emotionally, it’s, it’s hard. So I have found that every situation is different. Every bullying situation, every family situation, every child, it’s all different, you have to kind of go with your gut. But what I have found to be the most effective, I actually just wrote it all out because my son was bullied based on his religion, just earlier at the beginning of the year. And so as everything I’ve been learning over the years about bullying and how to handle this and how to help my son through it, which is the main goal, my main goal is not punishment of this other. Make sure my son is okay. So if you go into that, then you have then you’re clear on your goals. And so I’ve I literally wrote down a list of everything I did in order and I created like a new like checklist for it. But basically the number one thing, when you find out that your kid has been bullied is to stay super calm. Your first initial gut reaction is to like, freak out and be upset. I went off the handle when I when I first heard what was being done, but back in, reined it back in. Because my eldest when she was bullied the second time, she’s like, well, I didn’t want to tell you because I knew you’d be really upset and you would be you’d be really mad that it happened again. So I needed to remember to check my emotions at the door, have the space. So staying calm is huge, then then they know to come to you and reassuring them this is not your fault. Nothing you did cause this. You don’t deserve this. I love you. You’re amazing. So reassuring them really checking in with them. You are loved. I will help you. You can tell me anything. I’m going to make sure this doesn’t that you feel safe. You are not alone. All of these things to reassure our kids. And then moving on is getting information like what happened right before What were you doing what were said again, not accusatory, so we have to be really careful when we’re gathering information to not victim shame our kiddos by getting information because when you do go get this gets checked in with the administration or the teachers, you’re going to need this information Who is this kid? What’s the I pulled out old yearbooks finds them. So getting gathering that information and then getting educated. So knowing about what is bullying, what is not bullying, because when you go to the school, you’re gonna need to say hey, listen, this is bullying, here’s why I know it. Here’s this is why it’s harassment. This is illegal and what are you going to do to keep my child safe? So you are I need your help, like, I need your help. I need to keep my child safe, you need to keep my child safe, they have a right to a safe learning environment as federal law. So what are you going to do right now to keep my child safe to ensure their safety and there’s different you know if it’s just like playground bullying and it’s kind of low level bullying, meaning it’s you know, your shoes are ugly and it’s that constant like I go to the teacher first I tried to inform the teacher when it’s harassment some are like you know, straight to the administration like copy the teachers if you want but fake to the administration like this is

Patrice Badami 19:06

what’s really important that a tool I’m thinking I’m hearing this and I’m a tool is key along with the dates, hundreds and the names of the kids document where it occurred, yeah, where it occurred. What exactly was said and that’s very important because paperwork is paper trails really important. When you go in your you might get as a parent you might get a little intimidated by the administration you might get very emotional that let the paperwork do the talking for you. Make sure you log it

Nicole Black 19:38

and if you make a phone call write down that you made a phone call who exactly what did they say are they what are their next steps? What are they calling you back? Or are you calling them back? Because you will be emotional and you’ve been like kind of holding it well I try to hold in my emotions in front of my son when I’m dealing with this so ice or I can say I am feeling very I will announce my emotions. I am feeling very sad. I’m feeling very Are you very sad that this happens? But I don’t allow it. So it sometimes comes out then when you’re in with other adults because you so yes, document everything, everything and really check in on mental health. Because if your number one goal is to keep your child safe, it is mental health is the name of the game. And so and it’s not a one time conversation, mental health conversations need to happen all the time. We’re trying to debunk the stigma in our family. So I talk to my kids, I go see a therapist did you check in and there’s nothing like just like we go to a doctor or we go to a dentist, I go to my therapist, so debunking that myth and saying listen, I want to check in on you how are you feeling letting them have validating those emotions, letting them have those big emotions if they’re older, like I’ve said, My son like this really does suck like he’s in middle school like I can like sure middle school middle in my elementary kid I’m just like I’m this is really this is a bad that you can change your language to meet them where they’re at. But giving the validating that this is not okay that you see them checking in you are loved, your connection is huge. During this time, don’t let them go into their room and shut the door. Stay there. So give them a little space but knock on their door and say I love you too much to let you be alone right now. I’m going to sit here next to you and let you have your big emotions. And I’m just going to be here I am here for you.

Patrice Badami  21:20

That’s beautiful. I love that really.

Nicole Black 21:22

And you know, I will really quickly like especially this the social emotional bullying, the bullies, words can become their truth. Well, maybe I am really ugly. Well, maybe I am. This will be my daughter. Blah, blah, blah, can become their little that little voice on their shoulder. And we have to be the ones as parents to step in and say no, this is not real life. This is not true. What they said is not true about you. You are this this and yes. Because

Patrice Badami  21:49

you got to get in there when they’re younger. Okay, she’s in kindergarten, it starts early. It didn’t really do it. Nothing preschool starts early, get in there early to let them know, this is what they’re saying. of your mother. On your father. I’m your caregiver. Yeah, this is find the one telling you that’s incorrect information. It’s just not true. Now, what’s your specific health and or suggestions for special needs children who are being teased and bullied?

Nicole Black 22:19

Yeah, so our special needs kiddos are two to three times more likely to be bullied. So if you have a kiddo who is different in any way, you need to know that bullies go for the different kid and different could be any difference, it could be a perceived difference, right? Like the smartest kid in the room could just as easily be bullied as a child who has a learning disability. So differences are what they go for. So I think with our kids being extra vigilant, especially if your child is verbally delayed, or is not able to communicate effectively, when they are being a when they are being abused or bullied is essential, right having those eyes and ears everywhere. For my daughter, she has a visual impairment. So a lot of the bullying, she didn’t kind of see it. It was all it was social and emotional bullying and verbal abuse. And so walking them through depends on your child’s disability depends on their needs. But no one this is completely illegal. It’s not bullying were like though Well, kids will be kids but no, no, no, no, this is harassment, it is illegal. If you cannot make sure that my child is safe with a free, like, you know, like, what am I trying to think of

Patrice Badami  23:34

free education, you’re supposed to be able to have an appropriate education experience.

Nicole Black 23:40

Every child has the right to a safe learning environment, what are you doing to ensure my child’s safety if you cannot ensure my child’s safety, then we take it to the next level? Right. And so you are faced with an administration and so many families that have kids with IEP s and FIBA fours are faced with administration’s that are not supportive. You need to know that your next level is maybe it’s social media, maybe it’s school board, maybe it’s police, maybe it’s your elected officials are so many different. It’s not fun when your administration is not supportive, because then you do have to escalate it officially, so document everything as far as how to help your child the number one thing that we can do for our kids I think and I talked about it in our in the bully proof ebook and just everywhere basically is get them a solid group of friends one friend,

Patrice Badami  24:36

I was just gonna just said that.

Nicole Black 24:41

People who are who liked them for who they are, then let their freak flag fly, who liked the weirdness or like the difference are like the kookiness, or like whatever it is, and they enjoy them for who they are and intentionally teaching our kids and I had to learn this as an adult. Intentionally teaching them what is a good friend of mine It is not a good checklist and unless I’m happy to share it with your audience of what is a good, like, it’s literally a checklist like if you feel better after you’ve spent time with them. That’s a good friend. If you feel worse after you’ve spent time with them, that is not a good friend. Yeah. So there’s a whole checklist so that instead of us saying that’s not a good friend, you shouldn’t spend time with them, because that’s not going to work for you. Then figure it out for themselves like, Hey, listen, this has happened and it’s happened a lot. Let’s look at this list. Where does your friend fall? Is this a good solid friendship? That’s gonna make you feel better? Because this is going to help our kids when a nasty kid says something, they’re going to know that there are people in their care about them and their support system. Exactly. And if they can’t find a good friend at school, which is very common, you can find a positive elsewhere, elsewhere, so scouts, sports, a religious school

Patrice Badami  25:56

art classes, yes,

Nicole Black 25:57

all, whatever their hobby is, get them in that special needs kiddo in karate, to be honest. And it

Patrice Badami  26:03

was about to do that, too. If you want to know something, I was gonna go to it. Because a lot of a lot of the martial art because I did Krav Maga and it grappling, I did all that stuff. So I found that they’re very supportive of children with special needs, because my other two went through it. And it’s very, they’re very validating, and they make sure to express a lot of pride in what you do respect for others. Right using

Nicole Black 26:32

voice No, like screaming, stop. Like, it’s so powerful.

Patrice Badami  26:37

Right. So I was just gonna say quickly, because we have a few minutes left, I wanted to review something from your website just for future information for everyone listening some of the topics you discuss on your website, and through your materials on Teachers Pay Teachers, as well as your website, how to slow time down and sit and spend time with your child as children as they’re young, by saying yes to this. So you have to look on the website to find out what that is a phrase as a boy, when comforting, a hurt or disappointed child what to say instead of a phrase to avoid when comforting, a disappointing child, we just said that, okay? The only two family rules you need to make your yourself a better parent, how to get kids to listen the first time once and for all. You can start wheeling by teaching your kids this thing, one thing, and more about bullying. And for the mom or dad or caregiver who feels they’re not giving enough, there’s a little information for you to read to validate your concerns and how much you really are helping your children and how to help kids who are helpers, how to learn to be helpers, such wonderful materials.

Nicole Black 27:50

All of it, I have to say all of it really comes back to all of those things. It’s about pouring into your kids, they do feel connected. So creating those connections, we use proof of love activities. And it helps with behavior, it helps us so many things. It helps with sibling relationships and rivalry. But it’s also a very powerful bully proofing technique. Because when our kids feel seen and heard and validated and loved, and understood and appreciated in our homes, then they can go out into the world and be confident and know that they can stand up for their shoulders go back a little bit, feel safe at home, they don’t have to find that safety elsewhere. So then they’re they’re less likely to go with a peer pressure or to listen to a bullies words, or they’re more likely to stand up for themselves or stand up for other people when they feel validated at home. It’s powerful.

Patrice Badami  28:35

Yes, it’s very important. Really, really important. The other thing I wanted to ask you is where can we find you where else other than that the your teachers pay teacher’s your website? Or what else could you tell us about that?

Nicole Black 28:48

So I have I’m on Facebook, I’m on Instagram, I have all my all my all my good resources. It’s all on Pinterest, whatever, you know, pick your poison wherever you want to find it. I do have a website, I do have a teachers pay teacher’s store as I just started an Etsy store. And so I have all of my resources, I have paid resources, free resources. And I have the raising kids movement. It’s a three month course and three months of support resources coaching. And we are starting up again in January. And so we have actually your your audience is welcome to join us we are doing a free three day live event where it’s how to get kids to want to be kind. So I can teach you how to get them to be kind but they’ve got to want to do it. And so we have a free three day and that is starting the end of January. So content you can share with your audience and it’s totally free comes with a workbook how to do that you get me for three nights diving in, here’s how we do that setting them up, setting them up for success. So we have tons of resources, tons of ways to to kind of work on kindness and bully proofing our kids.

Patrice Badami  29:50

Right? So again, now it’s not just your name Nicole Black is carpooling and coffee, right coffee

Nicole Black 29:56

and carpool is my coffee and carpool.com And that was back when I was kind of doing all the parenting things. And so now really the focus is raising kids and for our educators listening, it’s teaching kids. So, yes, it’s www dot coffee and carpool.com. All of my resources are there. Facebook is coffee and carpool raising kids. I have a free Facebook group that is literally just about raising kinds kids getting home getting support, getting resources, all that good stuff.

Patrice Badami  30:25

Right. I was just gonna say Yeah, so I just want to make sure because I As you noticed, I was I was confused. So it’s coffee o’clock.

Nicole Black 30:32

Yep. And I have my coffee and I’m always carpooling. So that’s how we

Patrice Badami  30:36

are and the reason kind kids is topics that you discuss under that. Okay, so then, once again, Nicole black, thank you so much for joining us. For acorn to treat family podcast. We will be hearing from our guests on other topics, the ones we’ve discussed, we’ll be getting into that into depth and having another podcast in the future. So thank you once again, Nicole

Nicole Black 30:58

black. You’re so welcome. I am looking forward to coming back.

Patrice Badami  31:01

Okay, great. All right. Once again, everyone, check out the website, acorn to tree.com. I have some free resources on there. I also have the podcast for family podcast. In the kitchen podcast. We’re gonna be having organizing your child study space coming up soon. So thanks again for listening to a Kwanzaa tree family podcast.